Melissa broke this into two videos, the first is my PBE story again, the second is a discussion about other topics like reincarnation, free will, and evil. (I’m sorry the audio is not great in these- I think I’ve hopefully since resolved it!)
My pre-birth story:
Discussion on related topics:
22 thoughts on “Just Sharing Conversation with Fellow Pre-Birth Experiencer Melissa Denyce!”
Interesting to learn about Pre-Birth Experiencer Melissa Denyce. I still seem to be the only one whose pre-birth memories don’t conform to the positive narrative
What are your pre-birth memories?
yes what are your memories if you dont mind me asking?
HI ive had many experiences , from a very early age, to see ghosts, outer body experences, dreams, of pre life existence. physically been huged by god, having premonitions,and much more one of the truest statments i know
is that. your live is pland out
Tom Campbell seems to believe we lose our individuality when we die in this reality – he also suggests our family isn’t there waiting for us. We are all part of the whole and we lose all those individual elements of our consciousness…
Can you confirm this from Campbell’s perspective?
And then, what are your thoughts?
My understanding is that Tom Campbell wouldn’t say we lose our “individuality” when we die- only the virtual human portion of our FWAU (Free Will Awareness Unit, or the local human character’s local definition). In his terms, he says what we really are is our IUOC (Individuated Unit of Consciousness), which is his word for “soul.” I feel the soul is both individuated, and also knows its oneness with all.
Regarding “our family isn’t there waiting for us”- there is a video somewhere where Tom clarifies that often misinterpreted statement (sorry I don’t have that link on hand). My understanding is that when he says “they aren’t really there waiting for us”- he is saying that in the same vein that we, too, aren’t really human either. Both you as a human character, and “Aunt Betty” as a human character, are virtual. But your consciousness, and her consciousness, certainly remain. He does say an IUOC can “log on” and play a given FWAU (a FWAU “at some point” as we know it) again if it wishes. Or meanwhile the “larger consciousness system” can play the character for us in a given thought responsive environment if it is helpful, also. And meanwhile, a given portion of the self goes on to have further experience past its physical death. So in that sense, the “Aunt Betty” we knew and expect isn’t really there anymore- she has moved on and continues to grow- but the (always-was-virtual-) version of her we know can be “played” as is best. I feel Tom perhaps tends to under-stress the meaningful relationships and love connections that we do retain from one experience to the next- even as I agree with him that we aren’t the human characters anyway.
As an example: If, someday, I (my soul) want to be 5 year old Christian again to enjoy some time with my mother, and my mother wants to have an experience as my young mother again, we will be able to make that happen- we can both “play those characters” in a created environment if we wish. But the constraints will be different; it won’t be the same full blown novel experience as we’re having now, but, we can still create and enjoy it if we wish. Am I really 5 year old Christian? Well, not really. Am I 41 year old Christian? Well, not really either. I am my consciousness, not my body at a given age; and so are those I love. If, when my bodies dies someday, my mother wishes to come help me transition, I feel, generally speaking, her IUOC will be able to choose to interact with me in a non-physical way that I will recognize, should she wish it, and/or should it be helpful for me.
Does that help sir?
Thank you so much for that thorough response – yes, it helps tremendously.
You can imagine, as I imagine most would feel, people hope to see loved ones when we pass. I suspect many people do expect to see the forms they’re used to seeing in this reality – I personally don’t need that. But the thought of losing what I understand to be me can be a little disconcerting.
Thank you for being so responsive
Thank you for sharing this link. I really enjoyed viewing of your interview as with all other of your interviews. I would love to hear you host a video session and invite other pre-birth experiencers to share their stories with you.
I want to tell you that I automatically turned into meditative state while I was listening to part II of your interview. It was really cool because I felt that it’s like a confirmation that my consciousness and your consciousness merged at the moment.
Thank you very much for your hard work of sharing and encouraging, brother.:)
It’s my 51st birthday tomorrow and coming across your story and insight feels like a beautiful early birthday present. Thank you so much for sharing x
Hi Christian, it was interesting to hear about your pre-birth memories. I do have some questions though. I understand that love is a skill that needs to be mastered in realistic and difficult scenarios, like here on Earth. However, the physical world we live is a fake reality. Before we incarnated we knew that of course but we agreed to loose our memories and allow ourself to be deceived into believing that it is real. It is understandable that only in this way by believing in the reality of this world we can master our love-skills in this training simulator. On the other hand, by doing this we are making ourselves believe in a lie and support this massive lie called “life on Earth”. We deliberately make ourselves deluded. It is not just a fake reality like computer-simulated VR, because when we play in VR we know that it is not real. But when we incarnate, making ourselves to be deluded about the reality of it is part of the deal. I see a lack of moral integrity in such exercise. How can goodness and love be developed and mastered based on lies and delusions?
Love is not a skill, love is the nature of Beingness; we are not here to develop skills or behaviors, we are here to integrate experience and to “refine” what we actually are, to expand it, through that process. We are here to create and grow; the veil gives us the opportunity to have a new experience. It’s not about “lies and delusions,” it’s about “new novel creation,” which includes the addition of an apparently independent portion of the self (the portion that thinks it’s only a human for a time). When your children play make believe in the other room, do we consider it a lie? What if they have really good imaginations, and try to take it very deeply? From the higher more fundamental perspective, it’s not really a big deal that we’ve decided to play make believe in the other room, to engage in this deep dream. Oh, but the ego may reject that, indeed. The ego rejects: we have fear, so we reject. We see suffering, so we reject. Suffering is not good; but it happens when we respond with and act from fear, which can only be discoverable and really knowable in a context like this. Is it a lie when you go to sleep and dream at night? If you consider the dream’s unrealness a lie, then perhaps yes. But it serves to help the individual process things he or she is dealing with, so in a sense it is a functional platform first, and a delusion, second. Meanwhile regarding “moral integrity”- we decided to do this, we signed up- it wasn’t forced on us by some higher power. We are so free, so unconditionally loved, that we can even “surrender” ourselves into such a convincing simulation. Metaphorically, we are so free that we are given the chance to get on the scary ride at the amusement park. It is immoral that we, as parts of Source ourselves, can make such a choice in the name of creativity and expansion? I hope that helps sir!
Thank your, Christian, for your answers. I understand your view and arguments, I understand that it was our free choice to incarnate. Indeed, suffering can be accepted and dealt with, and we signed up for it, it’s only the ego that rejects suffering. But suffering is not the real issue here. I’m not saying that accepting the incarnate existence is wrong, it’s a choice, and it indeed has its benefits, these corporeal experiences can never be gained in the afterlife realms and so they are very unique. But I can’t help also seeing its drawbacks. Yes, by compromising the truth and allowing ourself to be deluded, like in children’s plays or dreams, we expand our experience and allow for creativity to unfold. One inevitable consequence of such compromise is suffering, but yes, we can deal with it. It’s similar to psychedelics: many people find psychedelic trip experiences useful and mind-enhancing and enjoyable (even though many of them involve bad trips). I myself have done that in the past, but I don’t do it anymore, and the reason is that there is something unauthentic and spiritually unhealthy in them, it’s essentially a self-delusion. And it can be addictive too. The only thing I actually learnt from them is how not to experience reality and how to stay clean and sober from deluded perception of reality. Even though many drug trips are indeed enjoyable and are unique and mind-enhancing experiences, they are still a deluded and a compromised way of experiencing reality. Another analogy is trying wines: there are thousands of wine brands, and we start by trying all we can without being too picky, but eventually we realize that most of them are crap and only very few of them are good wines, and there is no point of trying all of them, it only makes sense to drink good ones. But true, we would not know what good wine is if we would not try bad ones first. So, like trying wines or drugs, human life experiences have their benefits, but they are only relative in a sense that we need to experience delusions and lies (and their consequential suffering too) in order to find the truth and to know the real difference and benefit (and happiness too) of knowing and experiencing the truth.
Anyway, I’m also curious, when you experienced that encounter with the Divine Beingness when you were in the womb, I can sense that you experienced the wholeness and interconnectedness of all there is, but did it feel like you were the experiencer that experienced the Divine Beingness and the Divine was a Being that was something other than your “I” (the experiencer)?
To your first paragraph: I definitely agree there are “drawbacks” to being physical (and my goodness, what an understatement that can be at times 😉 ). Agree that overall, it’s trying the “not real” for the sake of the “real.”
To your second paragraph: I was aware of both my individuality, and also my inseparable oneness with All. I feel that individuality and Oneness are not mutually exclusive. (I would not say that is true for separate identity ego and Oneness.) We may go “far” in “one direction” on that spectrum (it’s not really a spectrum but maybe it might be helpful to think of it as a spectrum) during a given experience- that is, dive deeply into individuality (even unto separation like we experience here!) or deeply into Oneness; but the two are not mutually exclusive, and there are higher states of being where both one’s precious individuality is felt and known, and so is one’s oneness with all, too. (In fact, I think that is common in many other reality systems.) In my experience in the womb, I felt and knew both, without contradiction.
I have really enjoyed your interviews I’ve come across on YouTube.
This whole spiritual thing is not new to me. I read a lot of great sources and have for years.
Sometimes the knowledge makes human life easier, but sometimes it doesn’t. Personally, I find many aspects of life more fearful as I get older. I’m 63 now. My beloved cat died unexpectedly in November, and I realized I had never truly grieved before this. When my grandmother died, there wasn’t the same level grief because she was in her 90s and hadn’t been able to speak for years – so there was the feeling that it was time. And I knew I’d see her again.
My cat and I had a deep connection and I think pets are just souls choosing to live as an animal for a while. So I assume our connection is deep on the other side too. All I know if that mixed in with the grief is a strange kind of fear that I find debilitating.
Reading the comments about our families not still being the same as their human personalities doesn’t bother me that much. I assume we recognize their whole selves/souls when we meet up, because we were in a soul group with their whole souls before we came here. I think they bridge the gap by appearing as we remember at first. There are too many stories of people on their death beds seeing deceased family and pets. My own great grandmother saw her deceased husband at the foot of her bed before she died.
Anyway, my human self wishes I had never incarnated, though my soul obviously wanted to. I am finding life more painful as it goes on. My mother is becoming visibly frail. My ex-husband (still friends) is incredibly sick and I know his time is sooner rather than later. And I’ve been drowning in grief over my “once in a lifetime” cat.
This sense of grief and fear is overwhelming and constantly runs in the background, making itself known when the day gets quiet. I live far from family and don’t have a lot of friends. The sense of an unknown future is awful.
No doubt, I signed up for these feelings, but I could kick myself! 😉
Yes, that makes sense, but in your phrase “I was aware of both my individuality, and also my inseparable oneness with All. ” it sounds like you felt that in that state you were the experiencer of both the oneness and the individuality? Or did the sense of the “experiencer” melt away as well? Or may be it’s just an irrelevant question? I’m puzzled by this mystery: are there as many experiencers/doers/selves in the universe as there are individualities, or is there just One “I”-experiencer pretending to be many (as the Advaitists say), or is there none at all (as the Buddhists say)?
Both. 🙂 The one ocean is many drops. Each drop, when it is in its truer states, knows it is a precious sovereign free willed drop, and yet the whole ocean, too. There is no contradiction (even though that sounds strange to the “separate human” mind that is accustomed to thinking in terms of strict duality).
Sounds about right, thank you!
Forry for keeping bothering you, but I still have so many questions 🙂 :
1. Does the Divine have its own subjectivity and will, or is it only a oneness of multiple individuated wills/subjectivities(drops)?
2. Are we as individuated souls heading towards the integration into the complete and undifferentiated oneness with the Divine, or will we continue along our individuated paths indefinitely (while perhaps being more aware of the underlying oneness as we develop)?
3. Are there new souls being constantly created?
4. Who created the astral and physical realities: the Divine alone, or all the individuated souls, or all of them together?
5. Is there a physical or energy aspect to reality, or is it purely consciousness?
I’ll be taking some vacation this week, so will be unavailable, but here are some quick thoughts sir! 🙂
1. I don’t think this question can be spoken to while attempting to simply speak to the “Divine.” What do you mean by “Divine”? If you are referencing “Source” as some thing that you’re looking for information (form) about, well, I don’t think there’s any way to articulate a response here within duality, since you’d like to know “this or that,” and Source gives rise to all “this or that” distinction and even to the conception of “this or that,” and, is within it all and transcendent to it all. But here within duality I feel there is a “yes” answer and a “no” answer to both halves of your sentence. If I had to cast a very wide inaccurate net with human language, I’d say “both” (without the word “only” 😉 ).
2. While any expression of manifest form is not the Whole, and therefore is incomplete (“lacking” in some way), still, our goal is not to achieve “undifferentiatedness.” Rather, we ever continue to evolve through all sorts of experiences and form. Our continual journey towards the perfection of Source doesn’t really end; it is a continual journey of refinement.
3. I don’t know. I suspect yes. But, our true nature transcends linear time entirely; all is happening in the one Now. So it is difficult to answer in relation to some level of time (in relation to the word “constantly”).
4. I don’t know exactly. From what I remember about the intention to create our physical universe, I feel both souls as individuals and part of a collective, and “higher” source also, is involved with creating these significant reality systems. We each can create- even worlds, if we so choose. But there are differences in scope, and different “levels” involved depending on the scope. Again, that is very difficult to speak to in words.
5. Physical and energy aspects of reality are simply form being experienced by consciousness. They are not fundamental. Consciousness is fundamental. So at its root, all is consciousness.
Thank you Christian! Much to think about (conceptually and beyond)
Hi, Christian. I just left a comment on your about page. I hope I made some sense.
I thoroughly enjoyed some of your videos. Very enlightening. I hope, perhaps, to have a conversation or two.
All that I can say is thank you so much. You are helping so many people!
Wonderful book, Christian. I’ve listened to the Q&A a few times and gain something new each time. I’m so appreciative of the effort you put into it, as well as your interviews, etc. Thank you so much.